Immigration in 2006
The Republicans have decided the big issue in 2006 will be border control down south. On Fox, Hannity has spent the past week patrolling the border with immigration officers. Apparently the biggest threat to border patrols are gangs of rock throwing Mexicans. Scary.
The argument that without stricter border controls terrorists will get into the US and blow us up doesn't resonate with me. They will find a way, irrespective of what we do. The Republicans need to tread lightly with this issue, the benefit of making middle America scared of Mexicans may be lost if this issue energizes Hispanics and they start voting. Don't get me wrong I see a need for border protection but lets not lose site of the reality that determined people will find a way into the US.
As a society we need to start coming to terms with a reality. Hispanics will find a way into the US as long as they can't prosper in their own countries. Fix that issue and we won't have to deal with the flood of illegal immigrants.
The argument that without stricter border controls terrorists will get into the US and blow us up doesn't resonate with me. They will find a way, irrespective of what we do. The Republicans need to tread lightly with this issue, the benefit of making middle America scared of Mexicans may be lost if this issue energizes Hispanics and they start voting. Don't get me wrong I see a need for border protection but lets not lose site of the reality that determined people will find a way into the US.
As a society we need to start coming to terms with a reality. Hispanics will find a way into the US as long as they can't prosper in their own countries. Fix that issue and we won't have to deal with the flood of illegal immigrants.
posted by mochi at 9:06 PM
16 Comments:
I think people should be able to cross borders freely. Let Mexicans come here and obtain some sort of work visa. If Americans didn't want them here, they wouldn't hire them in such numbers!
I think you're right here, Mochi. At this point the Republicans may be trying to play upon fears in order to gain political advantage. (the hallmark of MOST politicians) The reason I say this is that they have done nothing heretofore and even President Bush has dodged this issue since he has been in office. (It is my personal opinion that he has dodged the issue specifically not to alienate the growing Hispanic population).
I've thought long and hard about the issue and outside of setting up radar nets and multitiered fence systems on our northern and southern border (which we will not do), there is no way to keep those determined to hurt us out.
Unfortunately that means that the only way to decrease the probability of terrorist activity is increased intelligence gathering/surveillance, etc. So once again we are back to the Patriot Act, and the ever expanding powers of government in our lives. I am not an advocate of the Patriot Act. But in order to keep the United States and its citizens safe from these people, increased police power and activity is going to have to take place. (Its been over 50 months since we were attacked on our own soil so evidently we are doing something right, but I hate to see the increase in government's power.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "fix the problem" in their country and they won't come. How do we do that? Most of the people I speak to left and right are against CAFTA, and the only way they will see economic prosperity is through trade. A little more info on that if you have time.
Shea, I'm all in favor of letting them come here and establish citizenship much more quickly. I think that we should welcome all who want to come here and take advantages of the great opportunities of this nation.
-Jack
As I said previously I'm all for CAFTA. If implemented correctly it will stem illegal immigration from central America, although the NAFTA experience would indicate differently!
Fix the problem by spreading the wealth...
I agree.
Good post.
-Jack
Ugh. This makes me sick. Illegal aliens provide no benefit to our country while sucking it dry of natural resources. They are a large part of the problem with California's budget and public school crises. They work menial jobs for no pay because they have no skills, get paid under the table without paying taxes, and yet we still have to pay educate their children in our schools and treat them in our emergency rooms. Because they use our emergency rooms as their primary care physicians thanks to laws that require ER's to treat everybody regardless of ability to pay. That's why there have been so many ER's and trauma centers closing around Southern California - they're beyond bankrupt.
There are plenty of ways to keep illegals out of here. Build a damn security fence, then patrol it. Deputize willing citizens to fill in the gap along the border. Start fining and/or prosecuting employers that hire illegals.
Want a guest worker program? Fine. Make registration for it in the potential workers' country of origin. Make them prove they have been there for at least 3 years instead of illegally in the U.S.
Oh, and if you think rock throwing is all border patrol agents have to put up with, you are incredibly misinformed.
Amazingly enough, I almost agree with Sean. I think Mochi is right that if we helped improve the standard of living in other countries through free trade we'd see a dramatic drop in immigration - so that's good. I'm all for that. But just letting all the illegals in to do what they may seems sort of crazy.
My brother-in-law is a Mexican immigrant who works in immigration law. He tries his best to help those who want to lawfully enter this country stay in, but he's not an advocate for people swimming across the Rio Grande. Not only does that increase the chances of terrorists getting in (although I admit that's a small chance), those points that Sean makes about schools and emergency rooms seem like reasonable arguments to me.
I do have to say, Sean, that the link you provided is about drug smugglers being violent, which is an entirely different animal as far as I'm concerned. Drug dealers and smugglers are violent people; it's a violent business. Most illegals who are trying to find menial labor are not violent - they just want a shot at a better life.
Sean, understand where you're coming from, but the problem is not the illegals so much as how our government deals with it. If I had the opportunity to come to this country illegal or otherwise under current circumstances I would. You can't blame the illegals.
Also, keep in mind that the influx of illegals has done little to the job market. We can back this up with a simple economic statisti--the unemployment rate. It has held steady and even decreased.
The prudent thing to do would be to offer amnesty to all, register them, put them on a small trial period, then make them legal citizens. As it stands now, we are doing NOTHING.
Our government is not serious about the illegal problem--if they aren't then they should change the rules or enforce it. Something neither pandering party is willing to do.
Good article:
Thomas Sowell: Immigration taboos: "Immigration taboos
Thomas Sowell"
p.s. I took Sean's advice and created a hyperlink. Thanks, Sean.
-Jack
Sean,
Do you live in one of those gated communities with 24 security and twelve foot fences, or have you barricaded yourself in suburbia?
The Berlin wall seemed like a good idea to communists determined to exclude their citizens from capitalism. Now the Israelis are barricading themselves from Palestinians, again learning nothing from history. Walls don't solve problems they mask them.
You can't have it both ways. Either we adopt an isolationist approach and reject the global economy and our push to bring freedom and democracy around the world or we don't.
Wow Mochi, way to completely mix up an analogy. The Berlin wall was to keep people in, not out. To compare it to a border fence is tenuous at best. To compare it to the security fence in Israel, which has been credited with dramatically reducing the terrorist attacks in Israel, is just way off base.
No. I do not live in a gated community with 24 hour surveillance. I don't live in a gated community period. I live on your average residential street, it even comes with the morons who drive 55 despite 25 speed limit. Pretty average.
You can't blame the illegals.
Let's take a closer look at that statment. What jumps out at me is the party you don't seem to want to blame ... the illegals. The very lable you use indicates that they have broken our laws and should not be here.
I agree our government has a lot to answer for. There is a reason we have immigration laws and immigration procedures. I'm all for immigrants coming to our country, so long as they follow the rules. But to say you can't blame the illegals? I disagree. Hey, if your local police don't like to do anything about burglars, maybe I can come over and help myself to your computer and television, along with any cash and jewels I might find. After all, its just opportunity knocking if the local authorities aren't going to enforce the law. Can't blame the burglars.
I know this is a touchy issue. Usually when I advocate strong, secure borders and crack downs on illegals who, by definition, are breaking our laws, I'm branded a racist. Nothing is further from the truth. Like I said, I have absolutely no problem with immigrants. Immigration and immigrants are what made this country what it is today. But if someone wants to come into this country, they need to do it legally.
I understand, Sean, but if the government talk tells you youre illegal, but the government WALK doesn't who is one to believe.
I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the government for not enforcing law.
-Jack
Ha Ha. Sean says, "Illegal aliens provide no benefit to our country while sucking it dry of natural resources... They work menial jobs for no pay because they have no skills, get paid under the table without paying taxes..."
Sean, who do you think hires those people illegally and pays them illegally, violating immigration laws, tax laws, labor laws, osha regulations, etc? Americans, that's who! Every time this subject comes up, people howl about the illegal immigrants, but it is as if the Americans who facilitate their being here are magically free of guilt. Those Americans are even more insidious than the illegals, because they know full well they are violating the law, and they deliberatly do so because they know people are so freaked out about the Mexicans they don't think about the Americans giving them money to come here! It runs the gamut from big corporations to private individuals hiring laborers to work in/around their homes. You want to see a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration? Arrest and prosecute the Americans who violate the law by hiring illegal aliens! Then you'll see some real results.
By the way, America as a nation uses a greatly disproportionate amount of the worlds resources, and that can't just be attributed to some Mexican immigrants.
I know if I lived in their conditions over there, I would probably be doing the same thing they are. But at the same time, it is something that has to be controlled, because it is anything but.
Jack,
Not everyone crossing our borders does so with the intent of hurting us.
Mochi,
"Fix the problem by spreading the wealth" doesn't sound so fiscally conservative ;) (Just kidding)
Sean,
We've got willing citizens already: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8607784/
Smorgasborg,
Keep on rocking in the free world. Your post was awesome. I don't see our national budget bettering the lives of those South of the Border anytime soon however.
SheaNC,
Excellent point. Big Tobacco and Walmart LOVE third world countries.
Chickenhawk,
Great point (Survival as a basic instinct), but how would you counter opinions such as Jack's? (The Drug Smugglers who aren't necessarily searching for a better life)
Everyone,
I live in the Midwest where we're supposedly not as plagued by the problem (1% Hispanic)... but I know plenty of construction companies employing illegal immigrants working illegal hours for criminal wages, and I've befriended as many "immigrants" as possible here struggling with immigration taking the "legal route". (A wife who must return home every six months when her school Visa expires, A nanny who married a total jackhole to avoid political persecution at home, and friends serving in the military who fathered children overseas whose wives are still fighting to come "home".) It totally bothers me that those taking the legal approach have the most legal troubles and those opting not to have the most amoral.
"Great point (Survival as a basic instinct), but how would you counter opinions such as Jack's? "
I dont think I
SORRY. I was saying I dont think I can counter Jack's point. That's life- where there is any sort of system in place, it is only natural for there to be some corruption and taking advantage of such system.
Totally with Jack that our government does not care about this. It just seems that, where there is no special interet money to be thrown around, there is nothing to be done. Or maybe special interest money is thrown at them to NOT do anything.... a-ha!
Every time this subject comes up, people howl about the illegal immigrants, but it is as if the Americans who facilitate their being here are magically free of guilt.
I refuse to hire illegal immigrants, and pointedly ask contractors that will be working on my house if they hire them. If I think they do, I tell them I don't want their company on my property.
Arrest and prosecute the Americans who violate the law by hiring illegal aliens! Then you'll see some real results.
Perhaps you didn't read my original comment closely enough. I know we differ enough ideologically that you might believe you know what I'm going to say before I say it (or write it), but in this case you would have seen that I support "fining and/or prosecuting employers that hire illegals". In that sense, you're preaching to the choir here.
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